What lies out beyond our current ways of seeing and speaking? Is there a new view and language emerging—an awake, neutral, openhearted clarity that draws as much from science and common sense as it does from spirituality and philosophy? A way of going beyond the war between worldviews (and the wars among all points of view) that simply sees and stands in the underlying unity of it all, and allows evolution to proceed more consciuosly?
My April 15th conversation with Peter Baumann was disarming, at first apparently elusive, and yet then became a fascinating exploration that stretched the Beyond Awakening conversation into some spacious new territory.
He seeks to advance our understanding of “being human” — appreciating that we, like everything else in our world, are processes in flux, always evolving and changing, and thus misapprehended by reified mental constructs.
In my first question I asked Peter what he is currently inspired by, interested in, and excited about. And instead of answering my question directly, he proceeded to talk about why he’s not particularly interested in excitement, and that focusing on what’s “exciting” is just a distraction. He’s obviously not at all interested in any idealization.
Very quickly, I realized, that he was interested in stepping outside and undermining the conventions of all usual categories and affirmations (spiritual, evolutionary, scientific, moral, political, etc.) in order to notice something bigger than our opinions, hopes, fears, reactions, agendas, and interpretations.
When I asked about his hopes, he talked about how there’s no problem with what already is, apart from any program to improve it. And when I probed, what emerged left us resting together in the paradox. There’s both the perfection of everything exactly as it is, and the fact that pain and difficulty and imbalance are big parts of it, and the fact that it’s a beautiful aspect of our very nature to attempt to bring about improvement.
He suggested we recognize our own individual lives as a link in the chain of evolution, that we be realistic about where we’re at in a gradually improving story, in which more and more awareness is naturally emerging.
He seems to be interested in helping people relax out of their mental habits and constructs, trusting that doing so opens a space in which we can see more clearly. And I think he trusts that clearer, more enlightened awareness and action naturally flows from that, since all human beings, in their core, want to see life flourish.
By the end of the interview, I found myself resting with Peter in a spaciousness that is beyond all categories or current frames of discourse. It is richly informed by spirituality, science, and philosophy, especially integral, evolutionary, and transcendental perspectives. But it begins, perhaps to express a synthetic meta-narrative beyond meta-narratives.
I hope this gives you a feel for it.
By continually expanding the frame, Peter helped us all feel into a relaxed, accepting, big-picture orientation, one that trusts and participates caringly in the brilliant creativity of the natural evolutionary processes that we all are, that gets out of the way of what actually is.
I hope you enjoy it! Listen or download it here.