Although he has never said it before, about six months ago, Ram Dass began admitting to close friends that, yes, something has shifted, and now he is enlightened. Something new has happened with Ram Dass! He’s abiding now, deeply, simply, in joy, with contentment, as love. Whereas before there was a “doing” of love, as he puts it, he’s simply being love now, just like the title of his new book.
For 40+ years, Ram Dass had always very explicitly said that he wasn’t enlightened, just a person on the path. But, recently, something profound has shifted.
I was deeply moved by the experience of interviewing him — I just naturally slowed down and simply opened, paying attention, and being with him—and feeling, even in the pauses between words, a deep and profound spiritual transmission. Many people who listened to our conversation last night wrote to tell us that they felt the same thing—several said they were moved to tears. There was something about his simple presence—even during pauses—that communicated a profound transmission of spiritual love.
I was blessed by the opportunity to interview Ram Dass—twice. That wasn’t the plan. We had simply arranged to conduct the interview beforehand, and to edit it (since he often pauses for words since his stroke in 1997.) So I recorded a conversation with him the week before our broadcast. It was a beautiful, moving exchange; we edited it, and planned to play it, and then to shift invisibly to the live broadcast for the questions and answers that we planned to take after the main interview had played.
But last night we had a series of technical glitches, and we couldn’t broadcast the recording. Both Ram Dass and I had called in to listen to the recording beforehand, so, after my introduction, we went live, and (after a delay) we dived right back in, and had an entirely new conversation. Many of you listened to that live. And if you did, you may remember me announcing that we’d be posting our previous conversation for download. Well, it’s ready now. So please be our guest and meet Ram Dass in a new and very beautiful moment of his journey on this planet, and tune into his profound transmission of love via two (beautiful, and yet very different) audio downloads.
The original interview, here, lasts a little less than an hour, and contains a beautiful discussion of the themes of Beyond Awakening, in relation to Ram Dass’s commitment to “being love”—simply and directly—right here and right now—first, last, and always.
The second one, which we just engaged spontaneously after our technical problems, was tender and disarmingly transmissive. It had a few truly special moments, and includes questions and answers. In its edited form (no need for you to re-endure the technical difficulties) it’s a little over an hour, and you can find it here.
With gratitude and in service,
Terry — on Monday, November 29, 2010
PS – One of the members of our community, Peggy Wrenn, transcribed some sections, which read almost like a poem. You can find it below, in the comments.
I’ve been searching for my inner self for the past few years, and I thought I’d discovered it already. But after reading Ram Dass’ book “Be Here Now”, I realize there’s still so much more I have to offer for myself, along with life. Me being an extremely optimistic 17 year-old girl, I want to learn so much more about this man. He’s a beautiful and inspirational and optimistic person, and I would do ANYTHING to meet, or even just get his e-mail so I can ask him questions. If anyone has any information, please, let me know. I’d do anything.
Yes, I agree with Ram Dass that coming together as a group is not as effective as being together and then radiating that outward. That is the only way to effect meaningful spiritual change.
Hi Terry,
I appear to be the only commentator who found Ram Dass’ first interview (the prerecorded one) deeply troubling. His message of being love was truly lovely, but when it came to responding to your question about the severe consequences of continuing on our current environmental path he really let us down, which I felt like a knife in the gut. To say that we need not worry about the death of potentially millions of humans and other animals because, after all, they will all be ushered into a new incarnation, contradicted all his fine communication about love. Is this love only abstract or is it practical and real?
My question to Ram Dass is this: what if you are wrong about reincarnation? What if this life is the only life we ever have? This one precious life? Is it still acceptable to sit back in our own bliss and watch as we consign life to a new and special form of hell on Earth?
I am not saying we all have to become raging activists. I am saying that we have profound systemic patterns of violence and exploitation to confront within ourselves as well as in our larger, societal self, and we never will face ourselves in the way we must if we take ourselves off the hook by discounting the lives — human and nonhuman — that our privileged lifestyle harms.
Count me as one who wishes you would bring in more people who have a profound connection to life on Earth, some wise ecologists (e.g. Wendell Berry), to balance those who are still perpetuating a body/spirit duality that I feel is part of the mind split from the Earth that is leading us to a very harsh future reality.
blessings,
John
Dear John, I have found most of the spiritual messages disturbing as all of them appear to dismiss humanity as experienced by the majority.
I think the spiritual ‘leaders’ have lived and worked in their particular field for many years and have lost touch with the reality we experience.
They have formed a whole consciousness around this re-vamped religion that creates the separation. The only truth is that it feels wonderful. Nothing will penetrate. God knows I try.
blessing to you too, Paula
Thank you so much Terry, sending huge appreciation. Totally delicious and personally helpful for confronting and living through bad fears. Words can’t say it. With love
Dear all, just like you I felt so blessed and deeply moved and touched while sitting with Ram Dass. I am so grateful to be part of this mega heart conversation. Dear Terry, I adore your graceful grit, may this loving “boostings” go on forever! Didn’t Ram Dass’ contribution make a tangible shift in our mega sangha? We all are participating in the concious shift on our planet. THANK YOU RAM DASS! THANK YOU ALL! Maya
Dear Terry and all the Blessed ones who listen in. I too was so touched by Ram Dass last evening. I had an experience when I was 12 Years old that made me drop everything that I had been taught by my fundamentalist family. I am now close to 85 years old and that has meant a lot of dropping of ideas and concepts. I was left with a two part question ” Who and What is God??? and how do I relate? That has taken me a long way and I used to have a lot to say about the trip. My kids called me “the world.s greatest metaphysical tire kicker in the world” Not a bad thing to be. Test an idea out, learn what you can, teach what you can and move on! During that period I did a lot of talking (and teaching too) As I came to the understanding that what was required of me was to be Love made manifest, To live Unconditional Love (Agape) with Compassion I found less to talk about. The unconditional love is what we are, the compassion is for our human failings. I find myself is the space with Ram Dass, the words come fewer and from a space that is difficult to put into words.
I am very grateful to all of you who are still vocalizin! We all are God in Action on Earth and Love is what we Be. Love to all of you Mickey/Mom““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““`
Hi Terry,
Thank you.
Kudos to Ram Dass. Hearing him supported my bias for Being, ie., diving deeply into the Ground of Being through meditation.
My guru, Andrew Cohen, says that spiritual practitioners have this bias either for Being or Becoming.
Becoming is “getting off your zafu and interacting with others through “enlightened discussion,” or with the world, in order to be responsible for “the interior evolution of the kosmos” [thank you Ken Wilber]. This is leaning forward, out of the No, and into the next moment: living for change.
My experience is that Being is blissful fulfillment and leads to deep insight. The pitfalls are lethargy and complacency.
Becoming is “meditation in action” [thank you Trungpa Rinpoche] and is a dynamic situation that sparks an awareness between you and other, that brings a realization of Oneness, way beyond ego agendas. The pitfalls are arrogance and aggression.
Like Ram Dass, I’m an old guy [74] and feel that I’ve had my days of Becoming and now prefer to simply rest in the bliss of meditation, of simply Being. Ram Dass spent years of Becoming, traveling and spreading the Good News of Spirit. And this is why it was so refreshing to hear my old psychedelic guru, speak so lovingly, convincingly, about Being, returning to the Source, resting in Love, just Being Love—ah yes, yes!
With infinite love and gratitude,
Lor
Many blessing to you and to all those you touch.
With appreciation and gratitude for your work!! This program touches that unknowable all-knowing presence and invites experiencing something greater… Many blessings
I feel so very blessed to have heard you with Ram Das. What a wonderful example to me. I learned so much about being heard and being patient. I received on a deep level the LOVE he speaks of.
Dear Terry,
First, I want to express my appreciation for the great work you and your associates are doing!
I listened to the interviews you had with Jean Houston, my mentor from the seventies, and Ram Dass, who’s first book was exactly what I needed to read at the time. Listening to Ram Dass this time helped me resolve an issue I have been wrestling with for a long time. I experienced a transformational awakening thirty years ago. I had been preparing for it for a while by meditating and participating in many workshops, some by Houston and Masters. The metanoia was catalyzed by the sudden death of my wife, and a great deal of stress over personal problems, including leaving my career as a car designer.
For fifteen years after the metanoia, I pretty much lived alone, grooving on life, nature, etc. living on a sailboat in Sarasota Bay, trading commodity futures, and doing occasional design jobs, for income. Immediately after the transformation, I felt I should pay back, and presented meditation programs and workshops for self-discovery. I felt that this was not very effective as I could see that people had their own expectations and agendas based on ego desires, and did not really hear what I was trying to get across. I also participated in meditation and spiritual groups, and made some good friends. After seventeen single years, I decided to get more involved in relationships to see if I could maintain my center of peace in the often hectic egoworld, and married my present wife, who is on a spiritual path. I have found that peace and love are always available to me.
During the 1990’s, I became convinced that the “growth economics” paradigm of our culture had peaked, and was heading downward toward something chaotic, and the appearance of prosperity was prolonged by cheap Asian labor and increasing debt. Then awareness deepened about the ecological disaster that has been happening and is getting worse. Intellectually I wanted to do something positive for humanity, while deep in my center was a knowing that “all is well” to the cosmic perspective.
Much of my time has been spent in my personal enjoyment of life, and sometimes my mind feels guilty that I am not doing more for others. I have been participating in spiritual growth groups, and writing a book about my life experiences.
Listening to you and Ram Dass reminded me of messages I received shortly after my awakening, that told me that if I wanted to teach, or be an activist, that would be perfect, and that if I wanted to just love life and humanity and stay in the background, that would also be perfect. The world would develop just as it should either way. I feel that our primary mission is to find ourselves, and open ourselves to love and beauty, and that in itself will affect those we come in contact with, and ripple out through humanity.
I hear a lot of folks wondering what more we can do to assist the global transformation, and my feeling is that whatever we do or don’t do, coming from love, is just perfect!
I hope we can meet sometime!
John Samsen
Oh what I have learned from Ram Dass in this conversation has taken a lot of guilt away. I had found contentment and peace and love in what seemed like a split second, sometime ago now. I wasn’t prepared for the inpact that my happiness would have on the people around me. I was so alone in my wonderful awakening, I wasn’t even looking for this experience, but I knew I couldn’t ever deny it or would never be the same again. But I couldn’t explain it. The more I tried to, the more I alienated people. I seem to have been apologising for this happiness all this time. I believe, if I heard Ram Dass correctly you can only reflect this inner peace and live it the best way you can and just be the peace….
Thank you ever so much. Beautiful! Thelma
Intensely involved for 8 years now in the teachings of A COURSE IN MIRACLES , I have been feeling all this “Beyond Awakening” movement -which Terry Patten is organizing in such a superb manner – as a gift. As an immense gift, well, of God Himself, so to say.
The talk of Ram Dass, whose books I read years ago, seems complementing and intensifying all that has been presented before.
For all of which we can be only be unlimitedly grateful ! !
IRIS from Brazil
This was a very moving interview and one I will turn to again and again. My heart kept singing “yes….yes…” Thank you. I also really appreciate Peggy’s transcript. Love to all!
Ahh! yes, love and love and no words. and the inbetween spaces and spaces…..And dear dear being ,Terry, you really filled my heart with such presence and joy…your watching , waiting , parience, your huge huge ability to BE and not to expect …
ahh! dear man , you were just as important for me as the soul speaks from Ram Dass and for that I bless and thank you
With great joy that you ARE,
Phyllida.
WORDS ARE INADEQUATE!!!!!!
I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!
Thank you for your downloads and generous guest interviews.
I would appreciate your permission to add Ram Dass transcript & your blog details to my Yoga Teachers’ blog.
With love & gratitude, M
Terry, again, thank you so very, very much for all that you are doing to open the world conversation to consider the possibilities.
Ram Das was my entry point into spirituality. Be Here Now was the very first ‘spiritual’ book I read. I was blessed to spend time with him in San Diego in the 80s just after Grist For The Mill came out.
Hearing him speak on Sunday evening was an amazing experience for me because I had just come thru a monumental episode of vertigo the night before – the first ever.
To go from being held tight in the fist of fear at 3AM, to feeling the gently sway of love in the moment with my very first spiritual teacher, was a great blessing.
The tears I shed were those of joy for being able to connect to the presence of The One, thru him.
The technicle gliches were but the least of it all. Much appreciation to you for your wonderful facilitation of an event which will be long remembered.
Me too! “Be Here Now” changed my life forever
I feel a little embarrassed to tell this but something extraordinary happened to me during the interview with Ram Dass.
I was totally focussed when he was speaking of the unconditional love from his guru and suddenly my body began to feel lighter. It felt as though the inner weight of all my life was being lifted.
I didn’t move and remained focussed and yet it was as though I was a witness to everything unfolding within me, but at the same time connected to Ram Dass.
A sense of peace came over me and I felt my heart burst open with love. I silently cried tears of relief which seemed to wash over my whole being. As I witnessed myself and acknowledged the reality, the witness entered my heart.
At that moment I became fully conscious and present in mind and felt like a whole human being. No past, no future only a feeling of connectedness and a deep appreciation of who I am.
I sat and listened to the rest of the conversation and found myself just being, but with a feeling of knowing without having to think about anything.
It is now almost 24hrs since this happened and although I didn’t expect it to last, I am still in a gentle state of euphoria. Just moving along with what I can only describe as life energy. It’s awesome.
I personally believe something is truly happening within my personal spiritual evolution and believe that many of us are uniquely experiencing it in full awareness. warmest regards to all, Paula Rose
What a thrill and pleasure to hear Ram Das once more………….sincere thanks.
Listening to Ram Dass, I experienced time differently. The slow motion quality talk, with carefully chosen words, their calm and care full utterance…and the bless full silence in between took me to a buoyant state. Laughter was a natural part of it all, and I laughed a lot.
I also felt free of fear of threatening illnesses. He was there, embracing all human fears and laughing at them with joy and calm!
Oh, he was so present, with no desires, no demands…
I saw that fully being is love!
Thank you all
Oh My Dear, Dear Terry!
You are compassion! You are kindness! And you, too, are LOVE!
How beautifully, with warmth & dignity & patience & kindness & such authentic reverence, you handled the interview last night! Thank you for trusting the unfoldment of such unexpected gifts! Your simply allowing taught me so much!
Thank you for your vision & generous sharing of the whole “Beyond Awakening” series. It truly is a priceless jewel in my own quest to shift.
Thanks so much for this reply and web site. I saw Ram Dass several times shortly after his strokes, several years ago. He is a miracle and blessing to say the least. He, as an elderly master, needs your prayers and support!! I had all kinds of problems with my computer last night, but I hope to catch up– I missed his seminar, live. I am thankful for this website. It keeps me linked to the Divine and the many masters that I have trained with, some who are now suffering and are no longer here. Thank You and Namaste. LR
Hi and thanks so much for all your offerings.
I just listened to Ram Das interview – rough listening with his stroke
and tech problems but oh so beautiful.
thought you would enjoy my notes, feel free to offer online or
otherwise (with by line to Peggy Wrenn)
Warmest wishes for winter solstice.
Peggy Wrenn
Ram Dass:
Beyond Awakening, November 28, 2010
Internet interview regarding his new book: Be Love Now
the soul is filled with love
it doesn’t feel the fear
I register the situation
the world situation
and I feel
that I’m going inside
to manifest my peace
I don’t get scared
I’m not frightened
I’m not frightened by things like terrorism
but I don’t fly
Ha ha
I’m just an island boy
a week ago we had a earthquake here
and I didn’t get scared.
I experienced it in my body, but I didn’t register fear
We were over at a hotel and some of the hotel guests
were going to higher ground because they were afraid of a tsunami.
It was clear in their minds there was a tsunami,
The ocean was calm, it was obvious,
but there was an inner tsunami in their minds.
without future and past,
these moments are , oh, ah, precious, precious, how precisous
and they are ecstatic, just living in the moment
I’ve got a stroke and all that stuff and in this moment I’m just so satisfied, so content, ah,
so present, ah, so quiet, ummm, so with my guru, just this moment, this moment
I’ve spent many hours of serving in Seva Foundation,
things like that
and it is tremendously valuable to me,
I give, I give, I give,
I didn’t think that I, as satisfied as I was then,
that now I’m giving being
I’m giving souls,
I’m giving some help to God to uplift souls,
It’s very exciting to me,
Now I’m , because before, when I was involved with Seva,
we had working for many people lined, giving operations …
I know those operations weren’t as meaningful to those people
as spiritual things.
I remember that we were,
and believe me—bringing a person’s eyesight back was a big deal
—but even that, even that, was somebody
you could see their soul radiating.
Oh boy, oh boy.
And I was doing helping.
And now I’m help.
because people are stuck in this plane
and they’re wishing, wishing that they can be with the Beloved,
their hearts are wishing,
and now that’s the business
and that’s Jews and Christians
and Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists
they all have the same thing,
the same thing
you get back unconditional love
whatever you are in this moment,
you are loved for that
you get unconditionally loved
Question about spiritual by-passing? “Are you in some way having a different perspective on that from the radical place of being love right here, now, and always?”
we have two planes of consciousness
that we are both ME the ego and the SOUL
we’re two plane beings
and you don’t forfeit one of those planes for the other
you can get them all
you got to be in your ego and in your soul
and I don’t think I’ve forfeited my humanity,
I’ve added to my humanity
in fact I’ve made my humanity so much richer
If you are an emotion
then the soul is watching that emotion
and therefore you are both living the emotion
and also you’re watching the emotion
and that is enriching for your life
The incarnation is a teaching experiment
for you to rid yourself of karma you’ve done from past lives,
and you’re in this incarnation
you’re following your mother and your brothers and sisters
and friends in the culture you are in and the times you are in…
all of that is your teachings, your teachings,
so that you get into your soul.
I … uh … Love …that is be … be Love …. now .. the heart … and … i uh … ah… ah …um …ah …love …now …what is so special is .. uh .. before … i … uh … Love … my guru … channels … seeing … uh … to see .. now … the Love is so special .. uh
beautiful words, just beautiful
Peggy, that is so beautiful! and so true. I’m just today somewhere between ego end of relationship and soul continuance of relationship and yes, it’s the merging of the two that makes us whole, that makes us human. Bless you for writing that. Keep beaming, Muriel
Thank you so much. I am deeply moved by your transcription. It touched my soul in a way that my mood shifted.